Liane Sadler and Elias Conrad bring an intimate synthesis of Renaissance flutes and lutes to Brno. They adapt polyphonic compositions, various dance forms and airs de cour for their instruments, using historical improvisation techniques such as diminution or bastarda. Sadler & Conrad is an ensemble included in the prestigious pan-European S-EEEmerging project focused on the professional and sustainable development of young early music ensembles. They come to Brno at the invitation of the Concentus Moraviae festival, which is one of the twelve partners of this project. As part of their residency, they will perform at a concert in the series "Barbara Maria Willi presents..." on 7/10 at 7 pm in the Convent of the Brothers of Mercy.
Dear Liane, dear Elias, thank you for finding a time for a short interview! And welcome to Brno! If I am not mistaken, Elias, this is not your first time in the Czech Republic, right? How do you feel returning? And Liane, how do you like the city so far?
E: Dear Lukáš, thank you for inviting us! You’re absolutely right: since I have a czech-german group based in Prague and many Czech friends, the Czech Republic is an integral part of my tour schedule and I’m more than grateful to come back as often as possible. Not only because of the extraordinary places and cultural heritage, the fantastic food (& beer) and the hospitality, but also the extremely enthusiastic and curious audience, always open to dive in unknown musical repertoire. Historically the Czech Republic plays a major in the field of early music and it’s always a special experience to bring back this music to the original places or seeing the original manuscripts of the music I’m passionate about in Czech archives.
L: I have never been to Brno before, so I’m really excited to see the city and meet some of the people here - especially at our concert on Tuesday and during some workshops and presentations we’re doing with local students.
The name of your Brno’s concert on October 7th is “Rotations”, if I understand it correctly – could you describe what awaits the concertgoers and why did you choose this name for the programme?
L: Our programme, “Rotations,” explores some popular 16th century melodies and how they oscillated between song and dance forms as they were passed down the generations. Some very beautiful songs were often turned into dance tunes, and sometimes even popular dance tunes were so beloved that lyrics were later added to them. They would sometimes transform melodically, or tonally, or rhythmically, and sometimes they barely seemed to transform at all. By weaving ourselves through them, we experience the rotating transformations that took place within the melodies… and of course, the name of the programme also refers to the rotations that dancers take.
A special feature of this programme is the pioneering use of a tenor flute at the low pitch of 392Hz. How did the idea to use this specific flute came to be?
L: Usually I use flutes that are copies of mid-16th century Italian instruments, but since this programme explores French music, I wanted to explore the sound world of French instruments. The maker, Boaz Berney, builds some copies of flutes by a 16th century flute builder in Lyon called Rafi, so I spoke with him to find an instrument that would word for our programme. This particular model was actually originally in the pitch of 377Hz, but we decided to compromise a little and have mine built in 392Hz. This is partly because it’s better for the lute to tune down to this pitch, but not quite so low. But it’s also for physical reasons - my hands are just too small to play a whole programme on such a big flute! Another reason for using this flute is that Elias and I both love the colour palettes of lower pitched flutes, so we wanted to enjoy this sonic aesthetic.
How has your collaboration evolved since your debut in 2021?
E: We’ve started working together as a duo in 2020 during our studies at the Schola Cantorum Basiliensis in Basel, Switzerland. Originally the idea was to dive into the romantic repertoire for flute and guitar together but we quickly focused on earlier repertoire such as french baroque music and more and more renaissance music. Working together was always quite special and thanks to many supporters we could find the time and space to develop and form our musical identity as a duo deeply. Since our working process had always been very time consuming, residency programmes such as the Odyssee programme of Château de l’Esparrou & ACCR in France, IYAP Antwerp in Belgium, and the European S-EEEmerging programme gave us the possibility to not only create our programmes, arrangements, and interpretations, but also to gain trust and grow together. Since the 5 years of working together we could share our music with audiences all over Europe, at major festivals such as MA Festival Bruges, Oude Muziek Festival Utrecht, Forum Alte Musik Zürich, Händelfestspiele Göttingen, Telemann Festtage Magdeburg, Festival D’Ambronay, etc.; record radio broadcasts and a CD and give insights into our approach, the music and the instruments in presentations for conservatories and educational institutions.
Obligatory question: How do you approach translating vocal works into sound textures on your instruments? What is the starting point and how do you evolve your ideas?
E: When it comes to renaissance music in general the repertoire we are working on is written in 4 to 6 (vocal) parts preserved in different part books. Therefore the first question is how to transcribe these works into arrangements for flute and lute and how to divide the parts between the instruments. Of course usually the flute picks one voice while the lute plays the other parts, in a so-called Intabulation - a tablature created by the lutenist, similar to guitar tabs, and a common practice in the renaissance era. We have a variety of possibilities to approach this topic of intabulating and arranging: for example I could play all the parts on the lute, while Liane doubles one voice, or jumps between voices - creating a new melody line - a so-called bastarda; or I leave-out her part in the transcription while she creates a beautiful, highly virtuosic line out of her original part by writing diminutions (florid ornamentation); or I play completely solo; or Liane writes a Ricecar (an improvised-style solo piece) based on a the piece, etc. As you see there are many creative ways and we’ve decided to incorporate all of them, even mixing different types within a piece. All the decisions we take are always inspired by the text. Not only these technical questions regarding the textures of arrangements, but also the choice of instruments and the interpretational questions such as phrasing, articulation, dynamics, sound colours of our instruments (the gut-strung lute and the traverso are particularly expressive) etc. The result we are aiming for is to sing and speak clearly through the instruments to distill the story, atmosphere, and dramaturgy of each piece and to make it accessible without any language barrier.
What are your experiences with experimenting with improvisation within historical repertoires?
L: Historically, musicians were improvising all the time, both within and away from the written repertoire that remains to us today. So naturally, experimenting with improvisation in at least some capacity is an essential way to more deeply understand historical music. For me, it helps to keep some spontaneity in our intricately developed interpretations, and adds an extra layer of personal expression.
Is your creative process independent from other musicians, or do you draw inspiration from elsewhere as well? If so, where?
L: I myself don’t work with other musicians in the same way as I work with Elias. Each creative relationship is unique, of course, but with Elias, over the years we found our own musical language together to distill the music we play into flute and lute essences. We are very careful and meticulous in digging out details and finding new colours and expressive possibilities. I’m very proud of the way of working which we found together through years of experimentation and trust. We’re inspired the singing and speaking qualities - which were always described as the ultimate goal for instrumentalists in the Renaissance, and above all we’re inspired by the music itself.
Does working with historical instruments bring any challenges that listeners might not be aware of? We all know about tuning issues with gut strings, but is there anything else?
E: When I started to use historical instruments, I discovered another dimension of expressiveness. The instruments themselves are extremely pure, fragile and colourful - in a way very human, individual, intimate and personal. With every personality it needs time to understand, to grow together, to trust each other - with historical instruments I have a similar experience. I think it’s always a different challenge and path to shape and form music with every individual historical instrument, but the sound palette is always unique and I think that is the beauty of making music - it’s always personal.
L: The Renaissance flute is perfectly designed to reflect the sound qualities and colours which were so central to the Renaissance - each note has its own unique colour palette. This naturally guides the player in their performances. While the aim for the modern flute is complete homogeneity of sound across the instrument, this simply wasn’t the goal in the past. The extreme variation in colour and sound on the Renaissance flute can seem restrictive at the beginning, but after spending some time with it, one realises that it actually opens up a whole new level of expressive possibilities!
Your concerts are characterized by an intentional closeness to the audience. What does this shared experience look like?
L: If possible we prefer to perform sitting face-to-face in the centre of the room, with the audience circled around us. Sometimes this means audience members can be sitting quite close to us, hearing all the little details of our playing, breathing, watching our interactions up close. The more intimate an atmosphere we can create, the better. We love this, because it feels like a much more direct dialogue not only between each other, but also between us and the listeners.
What are your impressions from your residency at Château de l’Esparrou, and how has it influenced your creative direction?
L: This was an amazing residency where we had a whole month to really dive deeply into the music of Casulana and discover as many possibilities as we could for performing her music - this is where we came up with our own language for the techniques we use (as described above), which has informed the way we continue working and playing together.
You are coming to Brno as part of the Sustainable EEEmerging project, which supports the transition of the early music sector toward a more sustainable ecosystem – what exactly does that involve?
L: In the Sustainable EEEmerging programme, we’ve been able to take part in many workshops which address topics around sustainability which include environmental sustainability, of course, but also explore sustainability of one’s career, artistry, working conditions, social matters, and more. It’s stimulated a lot of thought as well as giving us more knowledge about our industry and how to work within it with the greater good at the core.
What motivated you to join the S-EEEmerging project, and what benefits are you gaining from it?
E: S-EEEmerging is a dream programme, connecting European culture(s) and young artists, creating a more supportive and sustainable network and bringing music to new audiences even those who cannot come to the concert hall - this vision is a great inspiration and we are grateful to be part of it. Beside connecting with local audiences, young musicians, organizers, festivals and institutions we’re benefiting from time and space during our residencies to work on our music, concerts, coachings and support for recordings & photoshoots and for our research.
If I’m not mistaken, the project includes mandatory concerts, educational programs, and more – what have you already completed, and what’s still ahead?
L: We’ve been able to do 3 residencies so far (including here in Brno), and we have one more in Portugal coming up. These have been great, allowing us to create two new programmes - which for us is a lot, because we work in painstaking detail to very carefully create our programmes. We’ve also been able perform for different audiences in different countries during these residencies, as well as separate concerts in festivals connected to S-EEEmerging. We’re looking forward to putting the final touches on our Lusitano-centred programme in Portugal soon, and especially working with Pedro Sousa Silva - one of the leading experts and performers of Lusitano’s works - to understand this music even better.
What are your experiences with creating and using digital or online formats to make your music accessible?
L: We’re lucky because Elias is an amazing designer and video maker, so we’ve been able to create some beautiful videos with full artistic control of the outcome. Nothing is like a real-life performance, so for our online sharings, we really enjoy personalising the videos we make, carefully selecting certain pieces which we think will translate well to this format, and creating miniature universes within each one. We hope this provides an alternative avenue into what we do and Renaissance music for people online.
Are you also interested in music from other periods or purely contemporary creations?
L: I play flutes ranging from Medieval to Romantic, and while I enjoy all of these beautiful instruments and their repertoire, there is a particularly special place in my heart for Renaissance music. I also have a special interest in English language folk songs and often explore this music as a singer, and I deeply enjoy being involved in contemporary music creations - using my old instruments as brand new, fresh tools. Elias is an extremely skilled and artful theorbo player, performing all sorts of fantastic baroque music with various chamber ensembles and orchestras, not to mention his upcoming solo CD on theorbo! He also recently acquired an original 19th century guitar and has been exploring Romantic repertoire on it.
What would you like listeners to take away from your performance in Brno?
L: We would be so happy if, during our concert, the listeners can experience some moments of musical intimacy, connection, and contemplation. We invite you to let your thoughts drift along with the music, and see what stories or images appear for you personally.
What are your plans for future projects or recordings?
E: Right now we are in the final phase of our CD production dedicated to the works of Madalena Casulana - a personal milestone of five years of work: researching, creating a programme, arranging, rehearsing, performing, rearranging, recording, editing etc. to give a unique but almost forgotten composer a voice again. We can’t wait to finalize this work and release it soon. Meanwhile we are already in the process of creating new programmes, researching neglected composers such as Vicente Lusitano and creating unique arrangements. All of this needs a lot of time and care but we are excited to continue this path and personal approach.
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