The Vienna State Opera will present its first production of the Makropulos Affair. Not only that the opera of Leoš Janáček will be introduced to this famous opera house but Jakub Hrůša will conduct there for the first time as well. We met two days before the rehearsal started and apart from the upcoming production we talked about working in opera in general. But we also talked about the position of the principal conductor of the Bamberg Symphony, which Jakub Hrůša will occupy starting from next season, and about getting from Brno grammar school to a world famous career as a conductor and finally we talked a bit about dress coats and other clothes. We did not talk about the Sir Charles Mackerras Award, which Jakub Hrůša received from the Leoš Janáček Foundation, but we congratulate him nonetheless!
In December you will perform at the premiere of the Makropulos Affair at the Vienna State Opera. Are you looking forward to it, what are your ideas?
I am looking forward to it very much and of course I have great respect for it, because it is a difficult task. The opera is difficult, if you ask me, it is one of the most difficult operas by Janáček. It can be assumed that the entire ensemble and institution are familiar with Janáček, but not the same experience a “domestic” ensemble would have, and especially with this piece. It certainly will be a difficult process and for me personally the managing of the score in terms of study will be one of the most difficult tasks I have ever had. It is a difficult score to decipher, prepare and to formulate an opinion on. Not to mention, that it is difficult to sing and to play – from my perspective, it is far more difficult than conducting.
But they have no experience with the Makropulos Affair, as far as I know, the State Opera will introduce it for the first time.
They have and they have not. For example, the orchestra played it in Salzburg at a festival, however, it was not played directly by the Vienna State Opera orchestra, but by the Vienna Philharmonic. However, the cast is almost identical; therefore some orchestra musicians are experienced. Janáček’s operas are produced in Vienna quite often; that is why his language should not be as unknown as it was several decades ago.
Have you cooperated with the main protagonist, the actress Laura Aikin or with the director Peter Stein before?
No I have not. Actually, I am going there for the first time to do rehearsals the day after tomorrow, therefore I have not seen anyone from the cast yet. Although I have met with Peter Stein twice and we discussed his concept and mine. He showed me pictures of what it will look like and we tried to merge it somehow into one concept.
There are usually far more talks about opera direction than about the music itself. Is it not a bit frustrating for the conductor?
Of course it is, but in this case we are lucky that Peter Stein is conservative in a good way. In short I could say that he is a director who would suit Janáček. Janáček was relatively progressive in music as he was conservative visually and he ensured that the directors upheld his numerous scenic notes. They often came from the mind of the author of the original which Janáček modified, but he also specified certain scenic challenges in depth later. Peter Stein is a director who tries not to add anything to the original. He even welcomed me saying: “I am a director, who has no concept; I simply realize the composers and librettists work.” Based on my experience with him I can clearly say that there will be no controversy about this direction. I hope that only people in search of scandals will be disappointed.
Do you have to be a visible head of the orchestra? Is it important for you to be in the leading role?
No it is not important for me to be the only leading figure, thus the single and irreplaceable factor of artistic events. Anyway, a conductor has to be a leading figure, because the colossus of the opera theatre is so large that someone has to give it a direction. Therefore, the conductor is irreplaceable, although I do recognize the dialogue between the conductor, the director and singers as essential. And even though I do not reserve any exclusive right to lead, I also do not reserve it for the director or anyone else. I believe in a certain balance of both visions, in the ideal case a merging of visions.
Alright, but I will remind you of the original sense of the question: do you need to be visible from the auditorium?
I do not, I have to say that – unlike some of my colleagues – I do not have a problem when some directors require that the conductor comes without being noticed. I do not find it important, because if the conductor is not interesting in the music part, it would not help him to be “seen”. Of course I like it when I bow at the end, and even when the performance goes in any way, I always stand up for it, at least if there is nothing utterly wrong during rehearsals which would force me to stand apart. I cannot fathom that I would disappear as “anonymous”, either after success or failure.
You are specifically a concert conductor, although you regularly work in opera. Does your symphonic preference have any influence on the selection of opera repertoire?
This difference is not as big as it used to be before – it is like sixty per cent to forty. I like opera because of my nature; it is not because I perform at concerts. Of course, it suits me to undertake tasks which are clearly expressed by the orchestral part. I am not intrigued by accompanying tasks or tasks expressively based on singing, which everything else serves. It is not because I find such a task undignified, but I am not accustomed or trained to do it and I do not have so much experience. Even though I can imagine myself working on the repertoire of bel canto – Rossini, Bellini, and Donizetti – I am not ecstatic about it, it is not my cup of tea.
I think that conducting Italian opera is a peculiar task which would end badly without the knowledge of traditions.
Exactly, and therefore I respect it. I know some of my colleagues, who are very good in this area, and that is why I do not have to do everything. Although I would not say that I am a conductor who strictly requires symphonism in opera, after all I like to accompany at concerts. I enjoy the accompanying tasks, I like to connect to other performers and I always found this type of dialogue entertaining and challenging. I am not even against the mainstream: when I was younger, I thought I would never have to do such operas like La Boheme or Carmen. However, I was offered to conduct them, which I accepted and I found out I enjoyed them and I could do them. Sometimes I find it interesting to try and remove the dust and tradition from such works – without tarnishing them – and return to what was originally written. That is always very adventurous.
Were you offered these after the festival in Glyndebourne?
Carmen and La Boheme came after that. In the case of Carmen I received many other offers concerning this work after my Glyndebourne work. Suddenly everyone wants me to perform Carmen everywhere and I must adopt a reasonable attitude to this situation. I do not want to be a Carmen specialist which everyone should understand. However, our Glyndebourne production was successful with listeners from all nations including the Parisian French.
Do you mean the Carmen performed in 2002 directed by David McVicar?
Yes that’s the one, but I am talking about this year’s revival. The last one was not directly touched by David, he did not participate. The stage remained the same as well as the basic concept, but the young director Marie Lambert, who prepared this opera, took the entire production differently without being disloyal to David. It was different from the perspective of energy, speed, dialogue interpretation and I must say that the production did not seem shabby, even though the backdrops looked a bit shabby. Some people – thanks to the cast – said that it was the best production following Carmens done by McVicar, or at least one of the best. Some concepts can be dusted off again and again, and if performers are good and there is time to rehearse – which is plentiful in Glyndebourne - , the quality can always be created anew.
Some concepts have been preserved by the Vienna State Opera for decades...
…but it is not always true that the rehearsals are good. I hope that this remark does not anger anyone, but the system of everyday operation there does not always allow it in full.
Next season you will be in the position of the principal conductor of the Bamberg Symphony. How did you feel when you were leaving the same position at the PKF – Prague Philharmonia?
Leaving was natural. The period of my position had not been so long, from the official start in 2008 or 2009 it has not been such a long time; although we had been cooperating long before that. I had the feeling that it was right time to move on. I deserved to go in a different direction and the orchestra also deserved new leadership. It was sometime around my potential contract with the Copenhagen opera in 2011, when we more or less agreed I would leave. The right moment was already at that time, though it was motivated by Copenhagen. However, my contract there did not occur due to my own decision, therefore I agreed with the PKF, that there was no reason to hasten the termination of our cooperation and thus we remained in the relationship for several more pleasant years. Even the position of a permanent guest in the Czech Philharmonic and the principal conductor in Bamberg were not a motivation to leave the PKF. I would depart based on my own proposal and our agreement anyway. However, when the Czech Philharmonic saw my departure, they offered me the position of a permanent guest immediately. From the perspective of some people that might seem to be the primary reason, but it was not so. And Bamberg will come one year after more or less as a coincidence. However, the coincidence is pleasant, because this will ideally preserve a certain continuity of my stable work.
You left the chamber PKF for a standard symphonic orchestra in Bamberg. Is there an unwritten hierarchy among conductors as there is between drivers – is conducting chamber music like driving a small car and a large orchestra like a truck?
Some – pardon my words – dumber conductors differentiate in that way; because with chamber music it is not easy to achieve a result which would interest everyone, it is certainly easier to attract attention using a large symphonic repertoire. On the other hand – if you know how to work in the chamber department, it is a great experience and advantage for every department. I am convinced that chamber music quality should also be applied in a large orchestra. However, there is one disadvantage of a chamber orchestra. It is not the size as such, smaller sound or effect, that’s not it in the slightest. But on the institutional part there is a disadvantage of a certain limitation of repertoire, especially with the institution that does not have a vast economic background, which was and still is the case of PKF. Whenever you want to realize a piece, which has a richer or simply different cast – it doesn’t have to be larger, an untraditional instrument is enough – you will find yourself in front of a financial problem. I considered this a real disadvantage at PKF. For a chamber music orchestra it is difficult to perform larger and dramaturgically more colourful pieces, on the contrary for a large orchestra – if it is not lazy with the institutional part – it is possible to do smaller pieces. And the orchestra should do them regularly.
The Bamberg Symphony was founded by German musicians who had to leave Czechoslovakia due to the Beneš Decrees and they characterize their sound as Bohemian. From your perspective, what are the specifics of this Bohemian sound if something like this exists?
I have been asked this question several times and I hope, as years will pass by, I can find a more suitable and accurate answer. First and foremost, I would like to say that even though the sound of the Bamberg Symphony can be characterized as Bohemian, it can be considered Bohemian only among German orchestras. If you compare the Bamberg Symphony with, for example, the Czech Philharmonic, the similarity is really small. Therefore, there is some “Bohemian” element within the German sound on the one hand and on the other hand there is the Bohemian element, which can be found in the Czech Republic. For the Czech Philharmonic, this matter is still internationally categorized – and people do not have a clear answer. I think that from a major part it is a certain setting of the overall musical approach, musical training, breathing and phrasing. For example some German orchestras greatly highlight structure, vertical, they analyse, and they are more or less nicely compact and heavy. The Bamberg Symphony has greater phrase and breath flexibility and I think that they are capable of expressing the melody and often they put more feeling into it than other German orchestras. They have a certain elegance and grace, they do not play heavy-handedly, and their sound is full and very colourful. The colourfulness of the string sound is something which cannot be heard often from German orchestras.
But what exactly is the Bohemian sound?
The answer is a bit tricky, because for me it is somewhere in the area of intuition or instinct. But I clearly know that when I stand before the Bamberg Symphony, I feel more at home than in any other German orchestra, let alone some British, American or Japanese orchestras. I think that there is some Middle European perception of music which we share to some extent with the Austrians or some German orchestras, where the Bamberg Symphony surely belongs. And there is clearly a difference to listen to Staatskapelle Dresden, the Berlin Philharmonic or the orchestra in Hamburg – these orchestras are more distant to us. Austrian orchestras are also a bit different and they use different instruments, but I still see more similarities between Brno and Vienna than between Brno and London, which is clear. I do not want to exaggerate geographical proximity but it exists – in architecture and gastronomy as well as in music.
It is also said that the sound of western orchestras is more and more identical.
Yes, it is; but the Bamberg Symphony is one of the few which still maintain its identity and its sound. They are recognizable just like Leipzig, Dresden, Berlin or Vienna.
Do you distinguish for example Gewandhaus from Concertgebouw of Amsterdam when listening to a recording?
Not completely and not accurately, maybe I could do it with some older recordings. And it also depends on the person who conducts the orchestra – there is a difference in listening to Leipzig Gewandhaus with Neumann, Masur or Chailly. But I absolutely recognize that it is not an orchestra from London or New York, or that it is not a Czech orchestra, which is clear.
How do you perceive and accept music traditions? When you come to the Vienna State Opera do you think about the fact that Gustav Mahler used to be there in front of the orchestra?
I have to say that I don´t. Or maybe I do, but only in this “magazine” sense, of course the idea excites me, but without an actual impact on my Makropulos Affair work. I try to get to know everything related to tradition, but in the beginning I try to decipher the content of music notes. I do not trust the literal reading of letters, the tradition always finds a way to the composition spirit and man must often humble himself. He decides not to do the piece like the others before him did, because it deserves a clean performance. And then, during rehearsals, he finds out that things, which he heard from others, come to him as well in his own way. I find it more honest though than simply copying the tradition. I enjoy searching at rehearsals and it fascinates me and I like orchestras which are willing to cooperate. Discover the piece again, to “recreate it”. But in opera, like the Makropulos Affair in Vienna, there is no spare time to discover, and you really have to know what you want and to realize this concept in a short time as successfully as possible.
You have made a series of recordings, the most treasured is the live recording of Má vlast (My Homeland) from Prague Spring 2010. What can be done with Má vlast at the Prague Spring, so that it could be like it has not been before?
I do not know what the universal answer would be, but I know that coming in front of the Czech Philharmonic and performing Má vlast in a different way than they have been accustomed to do for decades, would really be difficult, maybe even impossible. But, based on my experience, it was not so difficult with the PKF, because the orchestra performed Má vlast for the first time. Therefore, due to the intimate knowledge of the musical language and the entire event it was really a re-discovery. And due to the fact that the musicians did not have this “established” experience, we did not have a problem with a slightly different performance than usual. For example we are currently recording Má vlast in Bamberg and once again it is absolutely different. I must humbly say that I cannot imagine achieving the same effect in Bamberg as with the PKF, that is impossible. Even my concept will be different, because it is based on the material and spirit, which is brought in by the orchestra. Although it will not be so much different to say that these two recordings are not related and that they were done by two different conductors. It always depends on the conductor’s charisma and his wisdom not to raze that which should not be razed and that he would not force the musicians from “positive securities”. No orchestra likes it, when the conductor shakes it and doesn’t offer a reasonable alternative. In certain nuances, the details and energy, every conductor can achieve different things, if he is accustomed to the execution.
When the desire to conduct manifested in you, were you a music prodigy?
I have to distinguish between a real deep desire and a mere flirtation when I find something interesting. The latter came rather early, when, as a boy, I tried to imitate conductors more often than other boys – I mean the boys that saw a conductor at least once in their lifetime. And as matter of fact also girls, I have a daughter and she also “conducts”. But the real passion, that I would manage it, came, when I was fifteen. It was the point when, as a teenager, I concluded that I would not be able (and maybe also willing) to become a virtuoso playing an instrument, because it was not in my nature and perhaps not even abilities; I mainly played the piano and the trombone. I also had a healthy ambition not to become an accompanying piano player or a teacher at an elementary art school. Music was the central point of my life, even though I was interested in other things to. Without hesitation I saw conducting as my truly ideal occupation. I did not know if it was only in my head or if I could accomplish it, but I tried to achieve it from the time I was fifteen or sixteen, only to prove that I would manage it. After I graduated from grammar school I came to the Academy of Music and Performing Arts in Prague, mainly due to private conducting lessons with Professor Evžen Holiš, cooperation with a student orchestra and my own intensive study of theoretical subjects, where I tried to catch up with the study materials taught at a conservatory. In my first year of the Academy I succeeded at Prague Spring, and I discarded all my doubts and concluded that it was the right path for me. My progress to conducting was therefore rather direct and unlike other conductors it did not lead there through other areas.
You said that you could do other things than music – what were they, what was the alternative to your conductor’s career?
I have never had any problems with humanities. I could imagine myself doing something related to languages, literature, or I would probably study at the Faculty of Law or journalism, there were many other options. I was certain I would never become a mathematician, physicist or a chemist, which is not always clear in the field of music and art, because some musicians have astounding mathematical capacities. For example, harmony has a lot in common with mathematics and geometry; it is some kind of sound perspective, isn’t it? I visited “Jaroška”, a mathematical-physical grammar school. Although I was in a general class, the teachers of natural sciences were the same for everyone, and even though I did not consider myself a nerd (I had little time for that), I used to get the best marks in all these subjects. I want to say that I could imagine myself in any occupation, but sometimes in the first or second year I felt – “with my entire heart” – that I wanted to occupy myself with music, to do things related to it, but not in a way that I would practise daily playing the piano. I have always been very diligent and hard-working; therefore I was intrigued by a field which is complex by nature. The study of scores does not bother me. There are only a few occupations in which you constantly learn new things. But only if you don’t stay on one track – which many conductors do. It is comfortable; however, it is not rewarding.
Is it important to read the score again and again?
Yes it is, but it is also important to listen to what the orchestra brings. However, reading the score is essential and above all it is entertaining. To read a score, which no-one has done before and from an author from whom I have done nothing before, is a colossal task. It is difficult, intriguing and sometimes it is not easy to reach the final idea. But to read again the score which you already did and to hear it by yourself using your own hearing is downright fun. You don’t manage the material, you do not manage the extent of the score content, but you go more into the detail, you do not manage the “what”, but you deal with the “how”. You project your own experience into it – either positive or negative – and you dream about the sound of the final version. I always try to imagine how the score would sound, if I performed it by the letter, and then I confront this “laboratory” idea with the estimate of reality, which is usually limiting. This process is never tiring if you deal with pieces that have some depth and some message to convey.
When did it break, I mean when did the world start to be interested in you. How did it actually happen?
For example, you can participate in competitions. To be honest, I am not where I am now due to competitions, but I took part in competitions too: in Prague Spring 2000 or in Zagreb 2003. I did not win these competitions; however, I was awarded there. Nevertheless, it is more important to draw attention to your person in competitions which leads e.g. to an assistant position with an important orchestra than competitions where you win the first, second or third place. I managed this in Paris with a radio orchestra (Orchestre Philharmonique de Radio France). However, this would not be enough, because this can manage a lot of people. I was lucky, because in 2004 I managed to invite a rather significant agent of the London agency IMG to my graduation concert performing Asrael by Suk. And this agent, without seeing my previous work, offered me a contract the next day: the concert was as convincing as references that he heard about me before. It was essential for me, because the competition in the world is great, and for a man to enter the group of the successful that are famous, it is almost impossible without an agency.
Is there no way to break through without the assistance of an agency?
It is possible up to a certain extent, if you join an orchestra which is highly thought of in the world and goes global with you, i.e. “exports you”. But then you come across a problem because if the orchestra goes somewhere where an important agency and prestigious events are to take place the organizers want to have a conductor who is already established. So it is really very difficult and I truly support my colleagues who are excellent, gifted and ambitious and they are dedicated but did not succeed in being covered by any agency. The work on breaking through and success is immensely difficult then. It is clear and I was really very lucky indeed which I will always appreciate. Sometimes, however, an agency can be like the sword of Damocles. I was lucky to get a contract with my agency, but it also means I have to share a lot of money with them, especially in the beginning. But I was also lucky to meet good people among the agents, some managers are absolutely crazy – bleeding the beginners dry and then they dump them if they do not yield enough. I have not had such people around me.
A few years ago you wrote a nice article about the right way to wear a tailcoat – do you have a liking for formal clothes and formal behaviour in particular?
Less and less; however, it does not mean that I do not care. I think it is important that music presentation meets formal values which in reality are present in music; so that the “package” or outward appearance the music is presented in is not ridiculed. I do not like extreme attempts and the exaggerated endeavour of some artists to popularize high-quality music by presenting it in as informal way as possible on purpose. I believe it is somehow a bit demeaning. I also find it absurd, however, when someone is particular about the stiff formality of the audience. I do not think it is important to insist on the audience wearing a tie or a bow-tie; I do not mind if they do, on the contrary, I like it; for me, it is usually a sign of the importance of the event or the situation for the person. Nevertheless, I do not think it is of primary or fundamental importance.
What is important then?
It is more important for the cultural event to be festive, exceptional, not to be ordinary, rather than the whole formality in clothing. Extraordinariness can also be achieved in a less formal format. There actually was a period of time when I enjoyed going in depth and thinking of the tailcoat which is ascribed to us conductors somewhat automatically and what it should be like. However, the idea that I should think primarily of the way I look is embarrassing enough to drive me crazy. The principle of formal clothing of males is, after all, in the aspect that you actually do not have to think about it! It is defined, you take on the ingredients and your mind, mood, brain and heart can be set on other things than your looks. However, I must admit that I also like some men who are as inventive as women in clothing. For example, there are plenty in the world of opera. Some of them are socially irresistible in a way.
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